2006/09/19
More on the Connective Corridor
For those of you who missed it, I had a great back-and-forth with an anonymous commenter about the Connective Corridor.
The commenter brought up a great issue: Why use the L-shaped route from the University that takes E. Genesee into downtown, when there are more direct routes through the city's near-south side.
The commenter certainly had a good criticism that the designers were intentionally avoiding a low-income neighborhood. I thought it was really just a matter of geography; to take the more obvious route – Adams and Clinton, you'd have to change traffic flow patterns (both are one-way in the wrong direction).
In his column today, Dick Case brings forth the criticism that overall, the scope of the project is too broad, and he had trouble with the tiny drawings on display over at the NIMO building. (I saw the much-larger renditions over at the Marshall Square Mall, but I think today may be the last day they're scheduled to be on view over there.)
He also, though, explains why the E. Genny path was chosen – there's going to be something of a sub-campus over there, beyond just the Center for Excellence building, which is currently under construction. So, the Connective Corridor would connect the campus with its sub-campus, and then continue to Armory Square.
That makes some sense to me.
In terms of a longer vision, though, here's what I'd like to see (Anonymous, are you reading? I'd love your input on some of this.):
The commenter brought up a great issue: Why use the L-shaped route from the University that takes E. Genesee into downtown, when there are more direct routes through the city's near-south side.
The commenter certainly had a good criticism that the designers were intentionally avoiding a low-income neighborhood. I thought it was really just a matter of geography; to take the more obvious route – Adams and Clinton, you'd have to change traffic flow patterns (both are one-way in the wrong direction).
In his column today, Dick Case brings forth the criticism that overall, the scope of the project is too broad, and he had trouble with the tiny drawings on display over at the NIMO building. (I saw the much-larger renditions over at the Marshall Square Mall, but I think today may be the last day they're scheduled to be on view over there.)
He also, though, explains why the E. Genny path was chosen – there's going to be something of a sub-campus over there, beyond just the Center for Excellence building, which is currently under construction. So, the Connective Corridor would connect the campus with its sub-campus, and then continue to Armory Square.
That makes some sense to me.
In terms of a longer vision, though, here's what I'd like to see (Anonymous, are you reading? I'd love your input on some of this.):
- Rather than making Armory Square the terminal destination of the currently proposed corridor, make it Hanover Square. Stick some bike racks in the square; there's already plenty of parking in the area. People can always walk on to Armory Square, and I'm sure the businesses from Hanover to Armory would be happy for the increased foot traffic.
- Take down I-81 from the I-690 interchange south to the I-481 interchange. Make Adams Street two-way; taking down the highway clears up all the traffic headed to the on-ramp; people will either head down South Salina, or will take I-690 to I-481.
- Make the Regional Transportation Center the center of Centro's hub-and-spoke system, rather than the Salina-Fayette intersection – or at least supplement it, to alleviate some downtown traffic.
- Make a second Connective Corridor down the newly two-way Adams and up Salina. It could take a left onto Fayette, which would no longer have a no-turns restriction, since some traffic has been alleviated. That puts its terminal point in Armory, and the option to go two more blocks up Salina to Clinton Square and Hanover Square.
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great ideas, definitely...especially tying the syracuse CoE & the sub-campus to downtown through hanover square.
i'd probably argue for a connective circle. that seems to make sense in many ways. first, and most important, students will actually use the corridor when they can easily and quickly jump between different points, i.e., going from point a to point d without having to walk through a cold january point b or c (or ride a slow bus). plus you'd cover more area within the city with a circle (or unique shape inclusive of EVERY point in a non-linear way rather than a linear path).
while, with the sub-campus, it makes sense to tie into the corridor, i think the corridor could be enhanced by utilizing the university/armory train stop for everything from attending classes during the day to providing "designated" transport home when the bars close. that'd be the southern loop of the connective circle...from there, students would naturally make the jump from armory to hanover. and that'd tie in perfectly with your northern "circumference" route.
i think there could also be a great bike/walking route one road south of adams, meaning it may not be necessary to change the flow of adams. check out below SU law school...there's a few parking lots that could easily convert into some student activity space/heated train stop. plus there's a clear path downtown...you just have to address the low-income housing there. it makes sense for SU to go that way, as students absolutely dislike living in brewster and boland halls because most consider it on the edge of "unsafety".
i'm all about your green path idea. i'm pushing that for the west onondaga area...basically the back side of the trolley lot where the county wants to put its sewage facility. i'm arguing that if you put something great there, that whole area could become a combined SU employee, professor, student and community neighborhood. lots of outside green spaces for summer concerts, really unique condos in the old mansions on west onondaga, basically an eclectic mix of live/work artist space for galleries and display, independent coffee houses, basically a "beta" community.
and, definitely, 81 needs to go, sooner rather than later. 481 should become the main interchange.
where's the regional transportation center? do you mean the future intermodal facility at the CoE? something like free bikes to ride (as ithaca i think did, along with some california cities), or more renewable options at the CoE would be cool too.
and, eventually, i'd redig the canal.
take a look at these pictures...these frustrate me beyond belief!
http://www.syracusethenandnow.net/Dwntwn/ClintonSq/Panrama1925/ClintonSq1925Lrgst.htm
http://www.syracusethenandnow.net/Dwntwn/MontgmrySt/WeighlockBldng/Weighlock_Building_2.htm
i'd probably argue for a connective circle. that seems to make sense in many ways. first, and most important, students will actually use the corridor when they can easily and quickly jump between different points, i.e., going from point a to point d without having to walk through a cold january point b or c (or ride a slow bus). plus you'd cover more area within the city with a circle (or unique shape inclusive of EVERY point in a non-linear way rather than a linear path).
while, with the sub-campus, it makes sense to tie into the corridor, i think the corridor could be enhanced by utilizing the university/armory train stop for everything from attending classes during the day to providing "designated" transport home when the bars close. that'd be the southern loop of the connective circle...from there, students would naturally make the jump from armory to hanover. and that'd tie in perfectly with your northern "circumference" route.
i think there could also be a great bike/walking route one road south of adams, meaning it may not be necessary to change the flow of adams. check out below SU law school...there's a few parking lots that could easily convert into some student activity space/heated train stop. plus there's a clear path downtown...you just have to address the low-income housing there. it makes sense for SU to go that way, as students absolutely dislike living in brewster and boland halls because most consider it on the edge of "unsafety".
i'm all about your green path idea. i'm pushing that for the west onondaga area...basically the back side of the trolley lot where the county wants to put its sewage facility. i'm arguing that if you put something great there, that whole area could become a combined SU employee, professor, student and community neighborhood. lots of outside green spaces for summer concerts, really unique condos in the old mansions on west onondaga, basically an eclectic mix of live/work artist space for galleries and display, independent coffee houses, basically a "beta" community.
and, definitely, 81 needs to go, sooner rather than later. 481 should become the main interchange.
where's the regional transportation center? do you mean the future intermodal facility at the CoE? something like free bikes to ride (as ithaca i think did, along with some california cities), or more renewable options at the CoE would be cool too.
and, eventually, i'd redig the canal.
take a look at these pictures...these frustrate me beyond belief!
http://www.syracusethenandnow.net/Dwntwn/ClintonSq/Panrama1925/ClintonSq1925Lrgst.htm
http://www.syracusethenandnow.net/Dwntwn/MontgmrySt/WeighlockBldng/Weighlock_Building_2.htm
# posted by 
: 21 September, 2006 09:12
: 21 September, 2006 09:12
Great photos; since Blogger didn't do the converting, here's the train terminal and the Weighlock Building.
The Regional Transportation Center, for whatever reason (I'm assuming this was the county's bright idea) is buried on the north side next to the Regional Market, across Park Street from Carousel Center. Perhaps "transportation center" is a misnombre. You can get an Amtrak or a Greyhound there, but only a couple of Centro routes.
I'm OK with it taking a little while to take down I-81; we seem to rush into a lot of things here (though to be fair I've only been here a few years), and there's a committee that's doing it right.
As for that Armory-SU train, I want to see it extended throughout the city. If it ran the Salina and Erie corridors, with detours for stops at places like SU and Alliance Bank Stadium, so much would change here.
The Regional Transportation Center, for whatever reason (I'm assuming this was the county's bright idea) is buried on the north side next to the Regional Market, across Park Street from Carousel Center. Perhaps "transportation center" is a misnombre. You can get an Amtrak or a Greyhound there, but only a couple of Centro routes.
I'm OK with it taking a little while to take down I-81; we seem to rush into a lot of things here (though to be fair I've only been here a few years), and there's a committee that's doing it right.
As for that Armory-SU train, I want to see it extended throughout the city. If it ran the Salina and Erie corridors, with detours for stops at places like SU and Alliance Bank Stadium, so much would change here.
Awesome. Jill had passed along info on the presentation, but some things just get to the calendar too late.
Any idea if Dick Case was there? He had some interesting comments on the Corridor Tuesday, but it seems like this is the sort of thing that seems like it shed a lot of light on the project, particularly since the super-scaled-down renderings Case saw didn't adequately explain anything.
And I'll be out of town for the weekend, so I'm not going to catch tomorrow's column.
Anyway, assuming Howie Hawkins doesn't win the senate race in November, maybe we can convince him to run for mayor again in 2008, and perhaps we can get Bill Harper to run for Common Council again, this time as an independent, if he's not willing to go democrat. At the very least, there would be steps toward re-digging the canal.
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Any idea if Dick Case was there? He had some interesting comments on the Corridor Tuesday, but it seems like this is the sort of thing that seems like it shed a lot of light on the project, particularly since the super-scaled-down renderings Case saw didn't adequately explain anything.
And I'll be out of town for the weekend, so I'm not going to catch tomorrow's column.
Anyway, assuming Howie Hawkins doesn't win the senate race in November, maybe we can convince him to run for mayor again in 2008, and perhaps we can get Bill Harper to run for Common Council again, this time as an independent, if he's not willing to go democrat. At the very least, there would be steps toward re-digging the canal.
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